Anthony Smith CLEARS UP Tom Aspinall Comments | UFC 321 Reactions ft. Quillan Salkilld

On paper, where the story's told, the legend grows like... Kelly, it seems like you enjoyed that conversation, too.

John is so smart, and I think with all of the refereeing issues we've seen over the last few weeks, whether it be UFC 321, UFC Perth, UFC Vancouver, it's always nice to hear from the guy who quite literally wrote the rulebook that I'm really happy he's back in the cage. That's where he belongs.

That is where he belongs. And now we don't need to call him Big John McCarthy anymore. He looked pretty lean and thin.

That's Slim John McCarthy.

Yeah, Slim John McCarthy. That's what I'm calling him from now on, Slim John.

If anyone didn't see it, I suggest going back and taking a listen. But we've got you here now, and you and Chael P. Sonnen seem to dominate the headlines coming out of UFC 321. We all know what happened. We're five, six days removed now. The Tom Aspinall eye poke. And the two of you seem to spark a lot of controversy on the desk. People aren't happy. I kind of want to just give you the floor to explain your thoughts. Not walk anything back, because that's not the Anthony Smith way. Just kind of explain where you guys were coming from on the desk.

Yeah, I'm not walking anything back. Because I don't... Okay. I took a few days before we did this video. Really, I mean, I'm being totally honest. I've just been hanging out. I took my kids to the Chiefs game. It's Halloween. It's, you know, Halloween's tomorrow. So we're, you know, getting ready for that. And I know that everyone would love to hear that I'm sitting around reading the comments, seeing what you guys are saying. I'm going to be honest with you guys, I'm not. But so I did, I have had a lot of people reach out and say, hey, man, are you seeing this? And to be fair, not really. I learned a long time ago to, if you don't want your feelings hurt, stay out of the comments.

Joe Rogan has always famously said, post and ghost. So that's...

I learned from the show.

Yeah. Yeah. Post and ghost. It's not important. But I did have, you know, I had Dean reach out and a couple other of my coworkers and actually some, you know, some fighters have reached out, some of them on both sides or whatever this controversy is. So I took a quick peek and I'm a bit shocked. I'm a bit shocked. Not at, not at people being upset because Tom is a, is a polarizing figure. And I expect that if I say anything that isn't a hundred percent pro, pro Tom Aspinall, people are going to be upset about that. And that's the beauty of this sport. That's why, and that's why I don't worry about it. We need you guys to be upset. If someone says something like that, we need you to be happy.

If, if an analyst that you really respect and appreciate, uh, says something good about your guy, that that's how this works. If that, if we don't create some sort of emotion, then we're not really doing our job. So unfortunately you guys are kind of in a matrix and you don't even know it. If Chael and I just stood up there and said everything that you wanted us to say, and we didn't give our honest opinions, then there is no reason for us to be there. Our job is to give our opinion. Now, the issue that I have is I think my opinion is being skewed. Like I would love for someone to go back and find a clip where I said, I thought Tom was faking it. Cause I never said that.

I never once, I never insinuated that. I never said Tom should have kept fighting regardless of how injured he was. I didn't say that. I never once. I would have never said that. The one part that maybe I probably, I don't know, probably fired up a lot of people was when Brendan Fitzgerald asked me what the narrative was going to be and what I was going to see on Monday. Uh, and I said what I thought that the narrative was going to be. And unfortunately, guys, I was right. If you look anywhere other than my comments and my mentions, it's a lot of people saying that. And I, it's not what I believe it's, but I know how this game works.

Um, and, and I, and I get so, I get so confused and it's why I stay out of the comments. I get so confused where I'll say like in situations where I'll say something and no one will actually debate what I'm saying, no one will actually debate it. They'll just attack my character and my career. And those two things have nothing to do with each other. I don't know why in any world, anybody that has, that is, you know, sitting wherever they are on their phone can like say, I don't have a position or I'm not in a position to speak on this. So if I don't have a position to speak on this, I've been doing this for 20 years, my entire adult life, I have been in over 50 professional fights.

I have almost as many amateur fights trained all over the world with the best in the world. And I am 100% respected by my peers because of my journey and how I did it. And again, I'm not going to debate my career with you. Did I win them all? No, I didn't. I didn't win the title, but neither did you. And like the people saying, I don't have a position to speak on this. If I don't, I don't know how you do. It doesn't make any sense to me. If you're sitting on your couch telling me that I don't have any room to speak on this situation, then you should also shut the fuck up. And that's, that's how I look at it. And that's absolutely why I don't take anything that those people say seriously.

If your opinion mattered, we would be working together, but we don't. So it doesn't matter at all. But I have absolute respect for Tom Aspinall. I'm not going to apologize for being upset that the fight ended the way that it ended. What about the millions of people that paid 80 whatever dollars because this is the fight that they wanted to see? Like I represent those opinions because that's how I feel. What, I mean, how much money do you think people spent to go to the event live? How many people flew over from the UK? You know how much an Emirates flight is from the UK to Abu Dhabi? It ain't fucking cheap. And, and those people are allowed to be upset. And I represent those class of people.

So I was upset. I got to watch it for free from ESPN, cost me $0. And in fact, got paid a shit ton of money to do it. And I was upset about it. I can't imagine how other people felt. So I, I, I'm, and I'm not going to walk that back. I was upset about it. I wasn't blaming anybody. I'm just upset about it. And I, I do think that there was one situation in our conversation where I think our conversation got a little muddled where I believe we were talking in generalities. I think we were talking very specifically, Tom. I think we got into like a very general conversation and then brought it back to Tom.

But again, I'm not walking that back because we're, we're literally on there minutes after it happened, but not a lot of time to like, we don't know what we're going to talk about. We have no idea where this conversation is going to go. So sometimes I'm just sitting there talking to my buddy and that's, that is what it is. But the only thing that is, as long as we're all very clear, I never said, I thought Tom was faking it. And I never said that he should have continued no matter how hurt he was. Like I, I, I just never said those things. And I've, since then I've been asked my opinion, like what I have kept fighting or what other fighters have kept fighting.

I have an answer to that question, but it, it doesn't matter. That answer doesn't matter. I think we all know what my decision likely would have been, but I'm not Tom Aspinall. And I actually said this exact thing. I'm not Tom Aspinall. I'm not, I'm not the heavyweight champion of the world and I'm not standing across some cereal gone and then thinking about doing it one-eyed. The one part that I brought myself into it, I did, and I didn't clarify this when I said it and I didn't mean it like this when I did fight with one eye and unable to see it was from a legal blow.

But the whole point was in that general conversation where we were talking about like, sometimes people end up having to fight with one eye that was like, Chael and I kind of moved in and out of like some, some conversations. And I don't know that we were like specifically talking about Tom in that moment. I think it was a very general conversation. And then we went back to Tom. I don't know if you guys ever had a conversation with Chael, you kind of just all over the place and you just, and you just follow along and then we just roll with it. And you know, whatever, sometimes it gets me in Chael in trouble. And, and again, I'm not walking that back.

Those are, there was a great conversation. And, and, and I actually left that post show thinking, man, that was a lot of fun. Like that was a, like we really vibed and we're flowing through that conversation.

And I had a lot of fun, the whole situation kind of got blown out of proportion because Tom, and this isn't coming from you guys. I'm not saying this is you and Chael by any means. It just feels like Tom was being almost vilified post fight for something that wasn't his fault. It wasn't his fault. His eye was gouged out. It wasn't his fault that this was called a no contest and not a DQ win. None of this was Tom's fault. And I think just because you guys weren't rah, rah, Tom Aspinall, you know, he 100% made the right decision because there kind of was a little bit of murkiness to it. And you guys can call it both ways. That's why you're up there.

I think that's why people got on you too so much because you were the first two people we heard from post fight. You guys are two very big names in the sport, of course. And I think because it wasn't a hundred percent go team, Tom Aspinall, people turned it into something that it wasn't my, my job's not to be a hundred percent team.

Tom Aspinall.

Absolutely.

And I know that this is the part that pisses people off. My job is just to speak my opinion. That's really it, especially on these post shows. Absolutely. Our job is to be analysts and to be like pre shows, especially on like a really good fight night card. It's hardcore X's and O's. You never see me really catch any on like a fight night because the only thing we're focused on is hardcore techniques, potential game plans, X's and O's, and, and really down to the bread and butter of what this game is. That's not how these big pay-per-views go. It's a completely different format in terms of our jobs. Like we work two completely different jobs.

When I work to, when I work pay-per-views versus fight nights, it's two completely different jobs. Unfortunately for the people that don't like it, my, it's really a very opinion based on the, on the pay-per-views. And if you don't like it, I, that, that, that's actually how it's supposed to be. That's actually how it's supposed to be. Like if Stephen A told me one time that when he was with Max Kellerman, they had a, like a format meeting every, every single day before every show, and then they would separate them. And these producers would ask them the same questions. And if Stephen A and Max Kellerman agreed on something, they didn't talk about it.

Because nobody wants to just see two people sit up there and agree and say things that they want to hear. Like that's just not how TV works. So then the things that they disagreed on, boom, those are the topics for the show. Because then you get 50% of the people on one side, 50% on the other. That's why pay-per-views are opinion based generally, because chances are, there's going to be the same amount of people that agree as disagree. So when there's a shit ton of comments where people like, yeah, I kind of agree with what he said. And then 50% are like, oh, he's full of shit. I fucking hate that guy. Like, that's the idea.

That's the, like I said, you guys are in a matrix and you don't even realize it. Like that's the, that's the whole point of the job. So I know that you're just hoping and you're typing your fucking ass off. Like he, if he reads this, he's going to be so hurt. No, he's not. No, he's not. If he reads it, he's going to say, it looks like I did my job.

If this was a cut and dry, Tom Aspinall looked fantastic, won the fight. We'd have so much less to talk about. It just so happened. It was two minutes and change surreal. Gone looked fantastic out there though. In my opinion, too early to say that he was winning the fight since it was only the change, but he looked really good. And then there was the eye poke Tom Aspinall couldn't continue. I think it's only fair to kind of look at both sides of it. You guys wouldn't be doing your job if you didn't.

Exactly. And what people wanted, or at least the, the Aspinall fans is for me to not address how absolutely great. So gone was looking early in that fight. They don't want me to talk about that because of how it ended. But that's, again, that's not the job. That's not the job. I have to address both sides like I watched the fight and I talk about what I was thinking about while I was watching it. Like that's, and that's what I was thinking about. And I, and I, and I think a little bit of it is because I, I, I said a lot of the things that I thought was going to happen on Friday when I could get a little more analytical. And a lot of those things were starting to look correct.

And again, who knows? It was early in the fight. These fights are long. So it, it, that maybe that could have, it could have totally changed, but we like, we'll never know. So we only talk about what I see. And, and, and really lastly on this, I, I think, look, I'm going to probably just fire this right back up to, um, I think sometimes what happens in sports is, is our hate for one can unfairly elevate or move the position of another. So I, I talked a lot about in the week leading into the fight, excuse me. me, and on the, the pre-shows on Friday that everyone kept saying, well, John Jones did this to Cyril gone. And this is what Cyril gone did with John Jones.

And I just kept trying to remind people like is great as Tom Aspinall is, he is not John Jones. And then we get in this Jones steep a thing. And then Jones is not going to fight Tom and he's going to fight Tom. And then he decides to retire. And, and I think that our hate, not, not our, not me, but like as a community, the hate that was the hate and anger that was being directed at John elevated Tom to an unfair position in his own right. And I don't mean that he didn't deserve to be where he's at in the sport, but I think it gave us unrealistic expectations of what, uh, of what Tom and Tom Aspinall is and what he's capable of and, or where he is currently in his career, right.

Or is currently in his skillset. So then there's this shock and awe when he's not running through Cyril gone. And then I highlight it and that, and that pisses people off. And that's, that's not saying anything negative about Tom. It's a goddamn heavyweight champion in the world. He's incredible, but he's not invincible. And, and there was this weird invincibility conversation going into the week. And, and I pushed back on that a little bit because it's unfair to him. I said it on the show. If Tom Aspinall has a close fight with Cyril gone and he struggles with him, but even still gets a win.

It's as good as a loss because of where everyone else has put him because of what John Jones did to Cyril gone or yeah. So we've put, we've put like Tom in an impossible, unfair position because of the community's hate for John. And so I think there's a lot of this weird back and forth dynamic that's happening. So like people are watching the fight and they're not liking what they're seeing. And it's not like he's not invincible because he's now, now he's bleeding his own blood and he's, he's landed and Cyril gone's still awake and he shot takedowns and he's still on his feet.

So like, I, I think the hardcores, the Tom Aspinall hardcores, like they start to get a little bit up in arms and uncomfortable. And then, you know, my dumb ass gets up there on ESPN and says a lot of things you don't like. And, and again, that's fine. That's, that's, that's actually preferred. I actually prefer it that way.

Before I even say this, do I think Tom Aspinall is the best active heavyweight in the world? I do, but I think a lot of the things that were and are being said about Tom Aspinall going into the Cyril gone fight were the same things we were saying about Cyril gone prior to his loss to John Jones. We were saying he's this elusive heavyweight that moves like a middleweight, good footwork, powerful. Obviously all the guys at heavyweight are powerful. I don't take that as seriously, but a lot of the adjectives that we are using to describe Tom Aspinall now, that's how we look. That's how we looked at Cyril gone before he fought John Jones.

And I think Cyril's loss to John Jones was equally, if not more mental than it was physical. I think Cyril gone is a damn good fighter. And the narrative of him completely changed after the John Jones fight. And I think by many, probably myself included, I'm not going to say everybody else and not me. I think people were overlooking him going into this fight. You were somebody that was not.

No, because I fought John Jones. I fought John Jones. I know what John does to people. I know as big and bad as all of us fighters pretend to be, there is something about John that is different. And it's not just his skill set. Of course, his skill set is absolutely fucking incredible. It's like fighting an alien. It doesn't make any fucking sense. But the aura that surrounds him, like when you're in his presence, it's fucking different. It's fucking different. And it's uncomfortable. And we are all a bunch of maniacs. The reason we're able to do what we do is because we don't really get uncomfortable. Like all of us have a couple screws loose and maybe not even screws loose.

We're just wired differently. So I never really let the John Jones performance affect how I felt about Cyril gone because I know what he had to go through. I know the mental stress. I've talked about it at length before about like the hardest part about fighting John Jones is making it through fight week. It's just he fucks with you. He's got a weird presence and aura. He's got a lot of people around him and those people are fucking with you. He's just a menace. And credit to him. I mean, I'm not even really talking shit about it, to be fair. It's a hard week. It's a hard week to get through. And then when you see him, like you think it's going to be normal once you get in the octagon.

And then when he enters, it just feels different. It just feels different when he steps in because you're standing there waiting on him. And like his walk takes forever. And he just seems to be somewhere else. Like he's not where you are. It's different. It's different. And so I never used that against Cyril gone. And it never made me change how I felt about him because I think a lot of that was mental. And I think if he was to do it twice, like if they had to re-rack that fight three weeks later, I think the fight would look different.

Now, I'm not going to say Cyril would win, but I think that we see a more competitive, different fight because now he's a little more comfortable and knows what to expect. And like we've seen DC talk about it. We've seen Gustafson talk about it. It's just fucking different. So I try my damnedest to like educate people on like what you're looking at. Like we can't, that Cyril gone isn't a real person. The one that you watched fight versus Jon Jones, that's not a real person. That person only exists in that, in that very specific moment with Jon Jones. And I absolutely love Tom Aspinall and I, and I, and I, I hope he actually really paid attention.

It doesn't read the headlines and like actually went back and watched the post show and see, and like seeing what I said, I don't think he would be that upset about it.

Yeah.

And like, if he actually seen it come out of my mouth, I don't think he would be that upset about it. And probably he would be more upset about the analysis of how the actual fight went. I think that part would probably piss him off because I think most fighters get not, I

don't know if mad's the right word, but it's not defensive when they hear analysis or critique of their performance.

If I like he, and you know what, I'll accept that.

Like if he's, you were in that, you were in that boat, right?

If he's, if he's upset about my, my, the criticism in the actual performance itself, listen, bro, I'll accept that. I'll eat that. Like if you're, like, if you're upset about it, like, I understand why you would be, I truly do. The rest of it, there's no way he could be upset about that. And, and, and that's fine. And, and if I was really too worried about it, I have his number. I can reach out to him and he has mine. So, and he hasn't said anything. So, um, yeah, that's just kind of my, that's just kind of my take on it. Like it was a shitty situation. I feel for Tom and I, but I'm allowed, I'm allowed to feel for Cyril gone too. I thought he looked great. He was very, very prepared.

Like you could tell he was super focused and dialed in and knew exactly what he was going to do. He had, you could tell right away what his game plan was. That's a lot of work for both of them that went for nothing. And, and that, so I feel for them both and I'm allowed to feel for Cyril gone because it wasn't intentional. I don't think anybody in the, in the world is saying that that was on purpose.

For Tom, he unfortunately finds himself in a lose, lose situation because he either does what he does and you get a multitude of fighters saying I've been poked in the eye before and I've continued to fight, or I would have fought, or you get the fans that are disappointed and I get it. I paid $80 for that pay-per-view. That sucks to see the main event end that way. Or Tom Aspinall continues to fight. Let's say he really can't see out of one eye. And now you're trying to dodge shots from Cyril gone. Like any other fighter at heavyweight can take you out with one punch. It's not a good situation either way. And only Tom will ever know how hurt he actually was.

And if he says, that's why I've never, we've got it.

We've got to go with it.

Right. That's why I've never, that's why I would never speak on that. Like, I would never say, yes, he was hurt or no, he wasn't. I think of the Aljo thing. How many times have people come at me about the Aljo thing? What do you think? What do you think? I don't know. Only he knows. Is that the decision I would have made? Clearly fucking not because I didn't. But that doesn't mean that, I'm not saying my decision is right. If I was Tom Aspinall, would I have kept fighting? Yeah, probably. Well, I'm not saying it's correct. But it doesn't matter.

Right.

I'm not saying that that's the correct decision to make. I'm just, people ask, would you have kept fighting? Probably. Like even my own peers, like Matt Brown, love Matt Brown. Can't say enough great things about Matt Brown. I can't think of, even if I had something negative said, I wouldn't say it out loud. I love that guy. But even he was like, I don't know what Anthony and Trill are talking about, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then I texted myself and go, wait a second, bro. Are you telling me you wouldn't have kept going? Is that what you're trying to say? Is that what you're hinting? Well, yeah, I would have. Okay. What are we doing here? And I'm not even saying Tom should have.

No, you're just. Don't crucify me for something that I didn't say that you would do.

Yes.

That's crazy to me. That's insane to me because I didn't say that, but you would. That's nuts.

Yeah.

You shout out Matt Brown, by the way.

Yeah. He's awesome. Should get him on here at some point.

We should.

You clearly speak from the point of view of the fighter. I speak from the point of view of the fan who never once has stepped foot in that cage, never would. Was I disappointed? Absolutely. Do I think Tom Aspinall owes even 1% of himself to cure my disappointment? Absolutely not.

Oh.

I'm very much at peace with the way Saturday went. Feel for both guys. Wish there was a clean finish. Ultimately, there wasn't. They'll run it back at some point. Hopefully soon.

Hopefully soon. Yeah. Lastly, I think people got mad about that too when I said I hope it's fast because I want them as close to the version that they were on Saturday. Because we wait four or five months. It's, in my opinion, the person that has more to gain from however many minutes they were in there from getting that data is Aspinall.

I agree. DC said something along the same lines.

I think he's going to be the one that's going to learn more from that. Because he's the one, in my opinion, he's the one that has to make the bigger adjustments. So if we kick this down the road four or five months, he has, he's got, and it's the same data that Cyril Ghosn is going to get. But as athletes, I know sitting at your couch at home, you wouldn't understand this. But as fighters, it is much easier to make adjustments and fix things when things weren't going the way that you thought they were going to go. In my opinion, that fight was going exactly how Cyril Ghosn wanted it to go. Stay just ahead. Land just a little more. Avoid the takedown. Be mobile. Stay off the fence.

Keep popping the jab. Land some long twos. Probably attack the legs as long as it would say, as long as it's safe and go high every once in a while. Generally, he was pretty successful at that. So he doesn't, in his mind, as an athlete, professional athlete's mind, as a professional fighter's mind, there is a, there's not a whole lot of change because what your game plan was and what your goal was, we're all working. It was going the way that you prop, again, I'm speculating, but I would imagine that fight was going pretty close the way that he wanted it to go.

If you are a Tom Aspinall fan, there is no way you can tell me that that fight was going exactly the way that Tom Aspinall wanted it to go. There's no way. You can fucking like me or not. You can attack my fucking career and my accolades and my character, but you could not look me straight in my face and tell me that you think that's how Tom wanted it to go. that everything was going his way, that he was walking it down exactly the path that they had projected. So who has, who has a, who has a better advantage going into the second one? The guy that now knows what didn't work and that can change it or the guy that had everything work and now doesn't know what's going to be different.

I think it benefits Tom Aspinall. So to keep it all fair, I hope it's quick so we can, I guess, so we can get the same version of them.

I think the second Tom is back to 2020, we get them boys on the mat. I wish they'd run it back at the end of the year pay-per-view. I'd love to see them open the year with it.

But who knows only time will tell as, uh, again, I don't make those, he still couldn't

see apparently.

And I, and again, I don't want to, I would, I would never want to rush him back in a situation where he's not healed.

So as soon as we don't want to find ourselves in the same situation, we don't want them both back in there healthy for sure.

We'll, I want them both healthy and I want to see who the better fighter is because I still don't know. I still don't know. And it bothers me. I don't want to know.

Real quick. We're going to have an interview with Quill and Sal killed here in just a couple of minutes. Scary knockout over the weekend, but fantastic. I'm excited to hear what he has to say, but do you want to get your thoughts on the co-main Mackenzie Dern, your new strawweight champion? What did you see from her in that fight with Birna Jandarola?

Yeah. In terms of the technical aspect of the fight, I don't have a lot. Like it kind of just was what it was like we, you know, I think jail actually.

They were beating the shit out of each other.

They were beating the shit out of each other and kind of the person who was like Birna was a little more tactical and, and, and trying to really attack the takedown. I think that probably surprised Mackenzie a little bit. Not too many people's game plan is going to be to take down Mackenzie Dern. That's probably, I mean, that's pretty, that's pretty gangster actually. So that's a thug ass game plan. And she did, but she didn't do a lot with it. I thought that the judges really sent a message that wrestlers are going to have to start doing something on top.

Um, grapplers are going to have to start attacking, punching, passing, whatever they need to do and being effective on the, in the top position. Um, and which I don't mind, uh, you know, I think that that's how it should be. So, but I thought the person really trying to start a fight the whole time was Mackenzie Dern. She's, I thought her hands looked really good. Uh, you can tell she's been back with Perillo. I really want to speak about kind of the progression of Mackenzie Dern since their last fight. Birna looked absolutely fantastic. Um, Mackenzie Dern was like five and four since their last fight. So she's barely above 500.

And if we really want to take a snapshot back to when Mackenzie Dern fought, um, Jessica Andrade, she looked like maybe this isn't something she's going to be doing for work for very, very much longer. And then she talked a lot about her personal life and, and her struggles. And she's very, been very open about, you know, when she had her daughter and then she got, you know, and then they got divorced and, and it's, I've said it time and time and time again. And there's one anomaly, there's one exception to the rule, but the rule generally is if your personal life isn't in order, it will always show its face in your, in your fighting career.

A lot of other sports and professions you're, you, it's easier to hide, but it will always show its ugly face in fights. And I think that that's what's, what was happening to her. She has to keep fighting because she has to provide. She's, you know, she's done interviews talking about her, you know, her ex-husband taking a shit ton of money from her and sitting in court and talking about how much money she's going to make so that he can get more money. And it's just a terrible, terrible situation to be in for her. And again, I, I don't know the details of their divorce. I'm just talking about like the mental spot that she had to have been in dealing with all of that.

And then to see, like, like if you take a snapshot, a snapshot of the Jessica Andrade fight and then her on Saturday, it was just a bit inspiring. You know, it's like a tale of, of two different, two different people physically. I thought she looked incredible and in the least creepy, creepiest way possible. She looked really lean. She looked really strong. She's had conditioning issues and weight cut issues in the past. There was none of that. She looked great on the scale. She had a smile on her face, looked healthy and, and fairly full still. Um, on the scale. And then she pushed for 25 minutes. So I just, honestly, I couldn't, I couldn't be happier for her.

Just like she worked really hard to change a lot of things and, and to get herself into a mental spot that is, that is going to bear some, some success and very clearly worked physically very, very hard. And when people work that hard and, and those many, in that many different areas, it's, you know, it's never, again, sucks for Virno, but, uh, I don't know. I found myself really happy for Mackenzie Dern.

I thought no scene better than her daughter coming into the octagon and touching the belt.

As a parent, like, fuck, that's cool.

As not a parent. I was like, this little girl must think her mom is the coolest person in the world.

And she's probably right. She, yeah, yeah, pretty dope. And marketing wise, uh, I would be, I wouldn't be surprised to see her on a, uh, on a kind of a celebration tour. She's crazy marketable. She's, she's, you know, she's beautiful. She's, she speaks well in interviews. She's got a great personality. She's got an infectious smile.

She's everything you want in a champion, really.

She's a marketing department's dream for sure. And when you see her fight, like you can say what you want about some of her, you know, maybe her takedown defense or, you know, maybe some of her technical, uh, I don't know, defensive stuff, boxing, but like that chick will fucking throw down. Like if she just bites out on her mouthpiece and throws bombs, like, and then you can, and then you can take that image of that person, that monster, that savage, that just, you know, just purebred. And then also flip it to like her in a skirt, sitting in a nice interview, being very personable and answering questions and with the infectious, infectious smile and laughing.

And it like, it's a marketing department's dream.

Absolutely. I'm excited to see what she can do with that division. If she can really take a hold of it. Cause nobody really stands out to me. No one is jumping off the page in terms of next, next contender, at least. So I'm excited to see if she can kind of keep a stranglehold on that division.

I think a lot of it has to do with the Weili, uh, Shevchenko fight. Cause I think if Zhang Weili loses, I think she comes back down.

And obviously she jumps off the page.

She, uh, she jumps off the page for sure.

Absolutely.

But I would, that'd be my guess is they probably wait to book her. Definitely. Good. And she's a bit banged up too. And it just, yeah.

Do you see your face?

Yeah. So I would imagine that they don't even have any conversations at all about another opponent until the Zhang Weili Shevchenko fight happens.

And there's no need to, cause again, it's not like anybody's waiting in the wings needs to get in there right away. So they shouldn't.

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Black Buffalo Tobacco Alternative, the future of dip honoring the past. And we have a special guest today. We're here with Quillen Southkild, and he's coming off a fresh, nasty head kick KO in Abu Dhabi, man. How was the travel back?

Oh, your travel back was, you know, it was good. It's always, you know, the travel back's always good coming off a big win like that. So, good to be back home and, you know, finally things are settling down and, yeah, just, you know, on top of the world right now.

What's the celebration look like since you've been back?

Oh, just eating here's the food, man. You know how it is, you know, cutting weight, and now I'm just eating some, eating pizza and all the things I couldn't have eaten for those, you know, for those 10 days when I was really had to, really had to restrict myself. So, I'm just indulging now for the time I can.

Incredible, man. Well, you deserve it. But, you know, as I was, you know, I've obviously watched you fight and broken down your tape and then as I was doing that and then I watched you get this just absolutely fucking highlight reel knockout, I realized I don't know that much about you, like just about like you personally and, you know, it's kind of been a pretty quick whirlwind for you since coming into the UFC. What did you, what did life look like before you found your way into MMA? Because you initially moved, if I'm right, you moved to pursue like a soccer career, correct?

No, Aussie rules football.

Oh, okay, okay.

So, that's our footy is like, yeah. So, yeah, before I got into MMA, I was, I was big on football. So, I've always wanted to pursue like an athletic career. Before that, I wanted to be a professional skateboarder and, you know, I've always kind of played footy and then I got into footy and I wanted to, to pursue that. And, you know, I'm from a country town in the northern part of Western Australia and I ended up moving to the main city, Perth, to pursue that football career. And, you know, during the off season, that's when I started training MMA after the first event, the first UFC event that come to Perth, Rockhold versus Romero.

A week after that, you know, I attended as a fan and a week later I started, started training. And then within like three months, I lost total interest in footy and just wanted to do MMA full-time. Well, what was it about MMA that, that, that kind of drew you away from your, your previous pursuit? I think it was just like the, the one-on-one contest. Like, I've always done like team sports growing up. So, this is like the first time I've done like a one-on-one, like a one-on-one spot where it's just like yourself when you're, when you're competing. And, you know, it's all on you. Like, that's the, probably the part I like the most.

So, you don't have to rely on, on teammates and you don't have to like let teammates down, I guess, in that point. So, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm not sure. I've always had a bit of a fascination with, with it ever since getting into it. So, once I just started, it was just, it was like a total obsession just to take over.

When did you realize you were good?

I feel like everyone has that moment where they're like, damn, I might be kind of good at this. Like, what was that moment? Probably wasn't until I reached my pro ranks, to be honest. Like, I was always, especially early on in my career, I was, I was trash. Like, my first amateur fight, I lost. And then my second amateur fight, I won by the skin of my teeth. Like, I got bashed for like two rounds and the last round, I went, I don't know how I did it. I, a miracle rear naked choke win. Um, and at that point, that's when I thought that I'm going to do this full time because that, that rush and that feeling of, you know, winning, especially in that way. Um, there was nothing like it.

And that's when I decided I'm going to do this full time now.

And you, and if I, if I'm correct, you lost your first pro fight too, right?

Yeah, I did. Yeah. I'm, I'm cursed to never be undefeated. Yeah. Every single one, all my amateur fights and professional fights, I've started off with a loss. I've started off on one, even in Muay Thai as well. And then I've gone, done really well afterwards.

Were you like, once you turned pro, were you like, you know, you lose the first one and you just let it go really quick or, or were you kind of unsure? Like, oh shit, that's a bad start.

I am. I went down the route of just forgetting about it. You know, I haven't even watched the fight back still to this day. I haven't, I know where I went wrong. I don't even want to see it. Um, so I've just forgot about it and just, you know, moved on. And, and then ever since then I've been, been on a tear.

Hell yeah. All right. So then you find yourself on the contender series, which seems to really fit your style. Like you're, you're, you seem to just have that finishing mindset. Uh, in big moments, which really fits right, right in with the contender series. And I actually know Gage young. He's a Midwest guy. He's kind of, he was like, uh, he was kind of the young guy that was around, you know, he would bounce around the gym. He kind of always followed James Krause around. So I've, I've known that kid just no, I've known of him. I don't know him that well, but I've known of him for a really long time. He's super tough kid.

And that, and so you beat him on the contender series, get your contract and then rattle off three in a row. Correct.

Yeah.

It's been a good, I haven't spent too much. You haven't spent too much time in there.

Yeah. It was, um, yeah, the first one quick. The second one is good. I got the, it was a tough decision. And then in the last one was pretty quick too. So, you know, I know that, you know, this, you know, time spent in this game is, you know, very, you know, finite. So I'm looking to make the most of it while I can, you know, I've only got say an average of 10 years, I guess, in the, in the sport at this level. Um, if that, so I'm, I'm, I'm looking to make the most of it while, while I can, while I'm in my youth.

So Nazrat, I thought this, I thought it was an interesting, an interesting matchup, not just because of the style part of it, but I don't know if you watched it back and listened to the commentary, but they made a really cool kind of note. I believe while you were walking that Nazrat was already in the UFC before you even started training.

Yeah. Which I thought was that I was still a virgin as well. I was still a virgin when he was in the UFC a hundred percent. I looked at that for, it was a month before I remember, um, Oh, that's fascinating. I went to anthropology and seen when his first UFC fight was. And I was like, damn, not only why have I started, haven't started training yet, I was still a fucking virgin. So that's crazy.

So that's a pretty big jump in experience. Did I don't, I don't feel like you're the type of person that gets too, I mean, maybe I'm wrong that gets too intimidated by, by accolades or certain things like that. I feel like you just look at the tape and figure it out, but there's gotta be some thought to like, wow, this guy's really been doing this a long time and I'm, you know, comparably to him, I'm pretty, pretty brand new.

Um, yeah, of course, um, I definitely get, you know, nervous, but also excited about like, you know, these big challenges and, you know, I, I back myself against, against anyone. So in these moments where I get big opportunities like this and I'm, I'm, I'm all for it. It makes me, you know, it makes, it makes me so excited. Like that's, I do this for the, for the thrill. This is, this is the best part about this sport is, you know, the thrill and the excitement of not facing these, you know, big challenges in these, in these big moments, you know,

I feel like there's a, that's like a very Australian mindset. Like I, I trained for a while with Rob Wilkinson and I feel like every, even his friends, when he would bring them around, like the, that Australian mindset is just so different where it's, I, it almost seems like you guys are just in it just for the good fucking time of it. And it's not like, it's not like you guys don't work hard or it's not super skilled. It's almost like you guys turned it into a party. I, I, it's, it's very fascinating to me.

That's exactly like it. Yeah. Like, yeah, obviously we, we all train and work hard, but at the end of the day, it's all about, you know, having fun. So that's, uh, I think that's what makes us, you know, good fighters in that sense is that, you know, it's all, it's all, you know, we'd love to do it. It's all, yeah, it's all fun at the end of the day.

Yeah. It's definitely a different, uh, a different, I always joked with, with Rob, like, I feel like the only thing that's missing here for you is just the beer because everything, because it does seem like, I was like, if you just added beer to it, this is exactly what these people want to do for the rest of their life. Hell yeah. Okay. So going into the, the NASRAF fight, what was the game plan or did you, or was it just react?

Uh, a lot of those react, like, I just like to know, I just want to know what, what my opponent has to offer. So we, what, we watch tape and we obviously we know Southpaw, he's, you know, he's going to spam that, that left hand and, you know, he's quite, you know, he's fast on the feet, like his hands, he has, you know, good hand speed. So the, the plan was to pretty much how it went was to use the utilize kicks a lot. And I was looking for the takedown like early on or, or shooting just to obviously keep that in mind. And, and yeah, we started off the file, just spamming some, you know, kicks, uh, up the middle to the body down to the leg.

And, you know, obviously dropped his guard thinking that, and then the one that went high was the one that, that caught him.

Um, do you, do you think it was beneficial at all to, to maybe have the 10 day notice and not have a whole shit ton of time to think about it, worry about it? And I don't get in your own head and stress about it. Or would you, I mean, obviously I think we all would rather have more time, but there gotta be some, at least in my experience, if I did take a short notice fight, there is some benefits there.

Yeah. Like it felt more badass taking it on 10 days notice. So that every time I feel like a freebie, I was like, hell, that's sick. Yeah. This is sick. Yeah. It does. Yeah.

It feels like a freebie.

Yeah. Yeah.

So that's probably, I mean, recency bias is a thing, but I don't, I don't think that this is going to be one of those situations. That's probably contender for, for knockout of the year. Uh, I thought it was cool seeing, like, obviously you had a bunch of excitement and you're celebrating, uh, but there was a lot of care there too. Like, you know, there for a second, I've seen you, I, I don't know, I don't know what you were mouthing, like you were kind of like, just get the fuck up. Like, like, all right, enough is enough.

Yeah. Like after, you know, a minute and once things settled and you obviously look over and you see he's still, he's still out and you see like his corner team there and you know, they look, you know, concerned and then obviously you get concerned as well. So yeah, obviously you don't want to see, you know, a guy like that, you know, for, for an extended period of time like that. Um, I didn't expect it. Like usually like, cause I've, you know, I've, I've knocked a guy out before and you know, afterwards he's up after like, you know, like 20 seconds or so. And I kind of expected that same thing to happen after, after this one, after I'd done celebrating, I see him still out.

So it was, yeah, it was, it was, it was a scary thing for, for a minute there. Um, and yeah, thankfully, you know, he got up and then, uh, later on we heard that he was, you know, all good. So yeah, things that, yeah, it's, it's, you know, thankful that it turned out that way.

Yeah. I think it was a, I thought it was a really cool human moment though. Like the, a lot of times doesn't get captured, you know, because guys are talking to their coaches and, um, that's typically how fighters react though. It's like, all right, this is fucking cool. And like, all right, I know, you know, this has been long enough. I, you know, you got to get up, bro. Um, but I thought it was cool. It showed the human aspect of you where you, you can be the monster and the savage, but also like there's a real person in there. So I thought that was cool. Uh, so you're, you're in one of the most competitive and deepest divisions historically in the UFC.

What do you think the, what do you see the, the kind of state of the division, especially with, you know, Tepori being the champion and, and, you know, some of the guys at the top are starting to age out a little bit. You see guys starting to retire and, you know, the new wave, you know, guys like yourself coming in. What just generally, I guess, you know, from like a 30,000 foot view, how do you, how do you see the division right now?

Um, yeah, I see a lot of guys, um, you know, a lot of the, the legends, uh, on their way out and I see, yeah, like us, the newer guys, you know, starting to move up the ranks and, um, you know, become the new, the new generation, the new era of, uh, of lightweights. And there's, you know, there's still those, you know, a few top guys at, um, at the very top that probably got, you know, one or two more fights left before, uh, they move on. But yeah, a hundred percent, there's definitely a new surge of, uh, us younger lightweights, um, yeah, coming through.

What do you, uh, what do you, I guess, what do you think of Ilya Teporia? Like, I'm always, I'm always, I'm always really curious to see how, you know, guys like yourself, the up and comers that are, that are kind of, they're doing damage and making big, big waves and names as analysts. We're always, especially as a, you know, a guy that's, you know, retired a few months ago. I look at Ilya and you're like, wow, this is guys, the future of the division, but I know that's not how you guys think about it. Like, of course, he's going to be there for a minute and you guys got to work your way up. But what do you see when you see Ilya?

I see, um, a tough challenge to, to face at, at some point in the road. Um, yeah, obviously what he's done, he's a, he's a bad, bad man. And, and, uh, you know, one day I hope to, you know, to face him in there when, you know, I'm at the peak of my, of my prime and say like another two years time when I've, I've reached the top of the division, I reckon that's going to be a, you know, wicked, exciting challenge to face.

Hell yeah. What a fun, what a fun thing to think about though. Right? Like, as you find yourself in this division, you got this nice wind streak, some dope knockouts. Yeah. Yeah. That's fucking cool. Right. And how, and it happened so quickly, like realistically, you know what I mean? Which is, which is awesome. Who do you want to fight? I don't, I don't, again, I'm making a bunch of assumptions here. I don't, you just don't strike me as a dude that's just out here talking shit, calling people out, but you gotta have like a dream matchup or someone that you just look at and say, ah, that'd be fun.

Uh, yeah, for now, like I got, I got some like big names I'd, I'd love to fight, but I know I've only had three fights and this was a step up. I don't know if they're going to continue to, to like, you know, push me as, as fast, like guys along the lines of, would you rather be pushed faster or would you rather

slow down?

Hell yeah. Hell yeah.

There we go.

I was thinking like a, you know, like a, uh, you know, it's like a non-biased, like, yeah, I hope, I hope they push me and, you know, give me ranked, a ranked fighter next. Um, but realistically, um, I'm not, you know, not too sure if that's going to be the case. Considering, you know, I've only had, uh, three fights in the promotion, but you know, guys along the lines of like, you know, Moicano and like, um, Benoit Saint-Denis and like, you know, Darius, you know, obviously fighting in a few weeks time, like someone along the lines of that, that's like a, you know, a good name.

And someone that's like, you know, ranked guys, I just want someone with a, with a, you know, with a big name in, in the division, you know, I want to, I want a big, cool fight.

Do you want to take some time or you want to try to get one pretty quick?

Yeah. Well, there's rumors of a, of a show coming to Sydney early next year. So I'm looking to be getting on that. So I hope they, they do end up coming through.

That'd be perfect. All right, man. Well, I, uh, I appreciate your time. It is a very, very late for you. So I appreciate you hanging out and, uh, giving me a little bit of your time. I'm going to let you, I'm gonna let you get out of here, man. It's been, it's been fun. Just kind of following your career as it's, as it's starting to take, take real shape. And I thought your performance and knockout were just fucking awesome. So keep doing what you're doing, man, whatever it is, it's working. Uh, and people are watching. So I appreciate you, man. Thank you, I appreciate it.

It's always funny to see the contrast of the guy in the cage who just had that vicious, scary, horrific knockout of Nasrat Hakparas compared to this guy who's just chilling at 2am. He needed his manager to set up the stream yard thing for him. Just like having a time.

Right. Like off air, it was funny. Like he was like struggling with like the, the technology part of it. And it's just really, I don't know, like you said, the contrast is funny. Epic mustache though.

I saw a picture. Somebody posted a screen grab of him on with Helwani and said, I just know this guy as Australian without even listening to his accent.

For sure. He looks like every Australian that you could ever just, like if you, he looked like kind of like the dad off the wild thornberries.

Yeah. Wasn't it Nigel?

Yeah. Nigel. That's kind of what he reminded me of when I was talking to him. I was like, I probably shouldn't say that. Uh, super cool kid though. So I appreciate Quillen for, for coming on. Um, hopefully he gets another five bucks soon. We can get him back on and talk about that. Um, again, big shout out to big John McCarthy. Um, I owe him big time for that. Big John's been a pillar kind of in my career. He's been around for most of it. Um, it was sad to see him not refing anymore. So I'm happy to see him back. So I appreciate you, John. Um, look forward to having you on again in the future. And yeah, that's it for us. There's two episodes this week. I hope you guys enjoyed them.

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